Julia, open the healthcare topic - it has tons of evidence - lower cancer cure rates, I mean much lower, longer waits for surgeries and specialists' care, rationing of care (certain treatments are not even available in some European countries and Canada), to name the few..

" January 8, 2008, Bethesda, MD—The United States places last among 19 countries when it comes to deaths that could have been prevented by access to timely and effective health care, according to new research supported by The Commonwealth Fund and published in the January/February issue of Health Affairs. While other nations dramatically improved these rates between 1997–98 and 2002–03, the U.S. improved only slightly."
***********.commonwealthfund.org/Content/News/News-Releases/2008/Jan/New-Study--U-S--Ranks-Last-Among-Other-Industrialized-Nations-on-Preventable-Deaths.aspx

When you call the French equivalent of 911, a doctor answers the phone, and if you truly have an emergency, they dispatch an entire medical team, including a doctor, to your house, apartment, hotel room, wherever you happen to be. They can diagnose you, begin treatment, decide which hospital is best for your particular problem, and have any needed specialists waiting for you at the hospital when the ambulance gets you there.
Oh, and it costs less than $200 [out of pocket] to have a baby. Two babies actually. Twins. By caesarian. With 9 days stay in the hospital afterwards.


***********.correntewire.com/france_you_dont_go_emergency_room_emergency_room_c omes_you

Julia, I am waiting for your comment for this posted non-sense about France's sytem of a doctor answering the phone and the cost of delivery being only 200 dollars.. how realistic is it in your view?? and how will the primary-care doctors manage to do it with the additional 15% work load.. btw, they all have "tort reform" and capped damages in Europe.. how can you expect to save money in this country when doctors are being scared of being sued and practice defensive medicine??
and btw, what do you think of the Europe's unemployment rate and compared to ours? any idea what contributes to such disparity?

my friend just had a baby, and it costs them $20 co-pay + $400 upgrade to a private suite in the hospital..

__________________
Человек, который почувствовал ветер перемен, должен построить не щит от ветра, а ветряную мельницу

are you saying we have pretty good and affordable healthcare here too?? nooooooooo, it can't be....(ch)

my friend just had a baby, and it costs them $20 co-pay + $400 upgrade to a private suite in the hospital..
------------------------------------------------------------
how much without insurance?
how much does the insurance policy cost?
and what did it cost the insurance company?

My whopping $32 emergency room visit in the land of socialized medicine
***********.janisian.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8384

he does not know how much it costs to the insurance company...
he only knows how much it costs to him...
i had a minor shoulder surgery a month ago, and also paid a whopping $20.

__________________
Человек, который почувствовал ветер перемен, должен построить не щит от ветра, а ветряную мельницу

oh, also i have a story - my sister in in Massachusetts ( and i will be moving there this summer as well )...
she got sick a few days ago and tried to get an appointment with an MD.
when she called a bunch an average wait time was in MONTHs..
Anyway, ended up going to some urgent care clinic where she could not even see an MD, a dumbass NP told her she had allergies..
Overall miserable experience..
Anyway, she was supposed to fly to CO, and did so anyway, with being sick and all.
There she was able to get an MD appointment the next day..
I hope we will not have to deal with MA style HC any time soon

__________________
Человек, который почувствовал ветер перемен, должен построить не щит от ветра, а ветряную мельницу